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09 Aug 2007
Linux needs to recognise Microsoft's leadership in some areas to better itself, Jim Zemlin, executive director for the Linux Foundation told delegates at the Linuxworld tradeshow in San Fransisco.
As Linux has become a mainstream operating system, it is exiting the first stage of its life. The second stage requires a different strategy form the first one, said the Linux promotor.
Open source vendors have to recognise that Windows is here to stay and that together with Microsoft it will form a duopoly in the market for operating systems. This also requires that the Linux community respects Microsoft rather than ridicule it.
"There are some things that Windows does pretty well," Zemlin said. Microsoft for instance has excelled in marketing the operating system, and has a good track record in fending off competition.
Although Zemlin advised against launching large scale marketing campaigns and against setting up a Microsoft-styled PR organization, Linux should acknowledge and address preconceptions about the software instead of denying them.
"This is a matter of leadership - for us to recognise that the world some times does see open source or open source licences as risky," said Zemlin. He also pointed out that many firms shy away from participating on open source mailing lists because discussions there tend to explode into flame wars.
Linux however does have strengths against which closed source software cannot compete. Because the open source development model forces cooperation between developers, it delivers a far greater pace of development.
He also highlighted some of the Linux Foundation's existing projects that seek to iron out some of the Linux issues and opportunities. The group for instance last month started up a "Green Linux" project that seeks to reduce the software's overall power consumption.
Zemlin also called for a better synchronisation between projects. As software projects are increasingly bundling several projects, they would benefit from synchronised released scheduled.
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Do you agree?
The same was said about IBM...
It makes me wonder if any of the posters here have been in the business long enough to remember that IBM, now seen as a "good guy" to open source, was deemed a monopoly, and was reviled by the industry. I also find it funny that Microsoft is so often accused of stealing ideas from OS, yet even in Java user groups I attend, OS vendors admit they took much from Microsoft. Then look at the way MSN tried to allow MSN and AOL IM users to co-communicate, and how AOL took steps at every advance to keep it from happening. No company is perfect, no one does what _everyone_ thinks is right, but that's the way the world works. It takes a small mind to focus on one company and claim all the ills in the software world are embodied in that company.
Posted by: Stan 19 Aug 2007
The Trick
The best way to defeat your enemy is to gain their trust, then take them down. Linux knows how to play their cards. Besides, the only thing Microsoft has done for the world is make a path for Linux to come up and kick their a**.
Posted by: Gary 18 Aug 2007
No free lunch!
That last comment was typical of a capitalist Harpie, We all recognise the NO Free lunch concept. I think most people are missing the the real clarion call to Linux and its ideals, but to misconstrue the the thing as altruistic ideology is an even bigger misconception. The Linux idea of altruistic cooperation is a good one, but we must recognise that all of us (human beings) have more of a leaning towards Capitalism than altruism, and so recognise the part commercialism plays in any endeavour that comes to fruition and ultimate success!
Posted by: Steve 14 Aug 2007
Free!!!
YOu people want everything to be free but are not willing to work for free.
Posted by: Iunknown 14 Aug 2007
good at marketing and stopping competition!
Yeah! Exactly! Just not any good at like, anything computer-related... still, great marketing and FUD tactics! Well deserving of praise!
Posted by: dan 13 Aug 2007
fair enough
you should show respect to everyone bill gates has had a massive impact on the computer industry. to give no respect shows nothing but jealousy.
Posted by: kolin 13 Aug 2007
I Respect them
I must admitt that I have a great respect for Microsoft... In the same way as I have respect for the maffia or violent countries. BUT I do have respect of the developers (as I have respect for most developers) and given some time (instead of be forced to speed the development up with bad software that requires patches soon after ""stable"" release [what did it take for Vista, less than a month to the first "patch"]) I think they would deliver great (stable) software. There's basically only one thing I like in M$ Titanic, ohh.. sorry sould be Windows, and that's the control panel. It lacks some functionallity but it's (mostely from a "less experienced" user, but still..) "userfriendly". Most things are easy to find and change, while CP's in GNU/Linux dists have been (and still are) pretty "hard to use" (some even getting harder to use). That's one thing OSS developers must get better at; making it easier for the user to change options etc. AND I think that OSS developers real get into it they would make software much more greater than M$ ever would be able to. We must promote GNU/Linux and OSS better and We MUST make better UI's (some UI's are real good but there's no such thing as "good enough"). We Must show the world (all from normal users too excutives, presidents etc) that OSS is the better option. Most users use M$ win for (one of) two reasons: 1. The must use it to play games (or use other Win-specific software). 2. It's the easy way: Windows is often preinstalled when buying a computer and most users have used windows before (or others in their familly, friends etc have) which makes them think: I/they have used it before, I/They know how to use it and fix problems when they occure (it's a matter of when not if) etc. People need something to bring them out of that thing-pattern. Yes M$ is bigger, yes M$ is idiots, yes M$ plays dirty, and YES We NEED to FIGHT BACK. They are Goliath and we/OSS are David. We can't perhaps bring them down, but we CAN give them a fight, we can make our voice heard and we CAN take a great part of the market AND WE MUST. So let it echo thru out the world: Free Software, Free Will, Free Speach (yes, that's also "in play" here), FREEDOME
Posted by: Mr_CHISOL 13 Aug 2007
Sounds like something?
Sounds like saying Hitler was briliant. He was, but used it wrongly. MS HAS got some good marketing, MS HAS got some good interface, and they have the market. Being there to stay is only logical, and projects like Samba prove that linux CAN live together with windows. Either way, imho it's not the case that linux users don't respect microsoft (or windows for that matter), I've heared out many who still admit that the interface in (non-vista) windows is better. It's the other way around. MS should respect linux, and grow to acception that we'll have to cooperate. (Either that, or they'll lose their grip on the market - for sure) My 2ct
Posted by: BlackKey 13 Aug 2007
this attitude is not good
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Respecting microsoft does not mean respecting its business practices etc. It was said wrong. Respect the product, because it obviously has some degree of success... and people pay for it, too. I don't like m$ and many times in the past I have caught myself thinking "if only linux could learn a few tricks, and yes copy a few features, it would be muuuuch better". I think the development of linux should be managed with more of a business and less of a technical (still technical, ok, but less) attitude.
Posted by: Kint Verbal 13 Aug 2007
Jump the gun as always
I think what everybody needs to stop doing is exactly what this article slap in the face points out. YES Microsoft will always be a backstabbing step on everyone`s back to the get to the top kinda of company, But in the greatest of retrospects you have to one day drop the "m$ sux" attitude and come to realise that yes Microsoft does have functionallity, Market influneces beyond what Linux could possibily emagine and lastly a market following so big that Linux would be stupid to not try take a slice of the pie back!. Respect? No...but if your igorant to m$ then you`ll be stuck in the past with the rest of the die hard linux users. Either way whatever the fuel for the fire "THIS TIME" Im looking foward to what this will evolve into with as mentioned the "Green Linux" and whatever other projects sprite from this. Nutshell : Good or bad either way new projects whatever the reason is only good :)
Posted by: FaTe 13 Aug 2007
I see the fanbois are out.
You guys sound like some stuck up french wine expert grousing about the fact Americans would rather buy a $10.00 bottle of domestic wine than blow $75.00 on some french import. Welcome to capitialism and competition - where people get to decide what they want based on their own desires and not the dictates of those "in the know". What we've got here is a bunch of losers who don't care to listen to what the consumer wants - people so cock sure of their superiority that if their product doesn't become a market success then someone somewhere must be cheating at the game. You Linux fanbois can froth at the mouth all you want but that isn't going to move product. The author suggests learning something from Microsoft -- which makes a heck of alot of sense -- or you can go back to making excuses about how the consumer is stupid and Bill Gates is a big poopy pants. I'd like to see MS get some serious competition. I was hoping Linux would provide that -- but I see instead the community wants to go into total 'whiner' mode. Ah well, maybe someone else will be up to the task.
Posted by: MadGerbil 13 Aug 2007
Yeah, right!
Respect Microsoft for being good at eliminating competition? Why not just cut off our own head and hand it to them on a silver platter?
Posted by: No1 13 Aug 2007
Windows is better for servers
Windows server is much better than Linux. I've had a multi-years experience with the Linux servers. I've moved to Linux servers and never going to come back to Linux again.
Posted by: ltw 13 Aug 2007
Open Source has no concept of "user friendly"
I have never found a single Open Source product that works as well as even the worst Microsoft product I have tried. Usually they don't work at all until you seek out half a dozen other packages and install them (and hope you find compatible versions!). MySQL doesn't come close to SQL Server (transactions didn't work, etc.) and there was no simple management interface. Eclipse has never worked correctly for me, and I've seen Linux corrupt its file structure on numerous occasions. Doesn't anyone ever test these products? I've always found that with Microsoft at least you know what your cost will be up front and can have a reasonable expectation that it will work as advertised. I get the feeling that open source developers don't care if their product works, because, well "it's free, what did you expect?".
Posted by: John 13 Aug 2007
He may be right
There is some truth to this and the linux community needs to get together and fix some of the issues that linux is still facing before the non tech can install and get it working.. I see 2 big issues at this point. Number one Driver installation and updates for drivers, which windows does very well. Number two would be Software download and installation. Red hat has the RPM's but Linux needs to come together and have one Installation Package for all flavors. These two things alone would add great power to the Linux world
Posted by: Elumina 13 Aug 2007
And waht about Microsoft respecting Unix ?
Innitative like Posix compliance etc .. are just face-up.. Microsoft Always won being the "second"(Lotus,Wordperfect,Mac,etc ...) but they killed every "first" and now are facing comptetion from Web like Google, the new "first". So microsoft is no longer competing on OS side, but on Client side. And that's a fierce challenge. I don't think we have to be afraid of basic OS competition, this era is gone! Earth is finally too small, asia have already taken sidepath!. But we have to be vigiliant on the client techno like Xaml et and others stuff that are A LOT more dangerous to the free world, because more and more complexe to emulate. So to sumarize, Such "statement" is probably OK but 1) If the demilitarized zone move to Web client techno NOW!! 2) If Msoft REALLY endorse a really compatibility API, at binary level, to run Unix code!
Posted by: Gordon 13 Aug 2007
3D
as 3d programmer all can I say is Microsoft still doing well on 3D games.
Posted by: Luna 13 Aug 2007
Grow up
As the author states in his article, many discussions end in flame wars. Sadly, the discussion on his article even begins with a flame war. I have invested time in Linux repeatedly, but got disappointed every time. Would you like a car with a great engine, but with scratches on the surface and rear mirrors that break off at first use? Recently I switched to Mac OSX , but I also liked Windows. It's great to have an operating system with software that works and that works in a consistent way. Linux is still a bunch of different programs thrown together with endless manuals and how-to's. I have an ATI graphics card that is not supported in Linux. It's the same card as in my Mac OSX, so how can it be that Linux does not support it??? With more and more software available in a browser there might be a future for Linux, but then it would only be an OS that provides a surface for a web browser.
Posted by: Marcel van Pinxteren 13 Aug 2007
This is why OSS is where it is!
Comments like the ones you are all expressing is exactly what this speaker is talking about. If all you have is hate in your heart you get nowhere. These MS trashings is what turns off people to OSS. Maybe you should look internally to what you want to project instead of MS bashing. If this is representative of the OSS community mind set then you have already lost the war!
Posted by: justtryingtogetalong 13 Aug 2007
I think an underlying point was missed
Maybe repecting Microsoft isn't the key point for Linux to evolve to the next level of professionalism so that it can be taken more seriously. Maybe it is simply a maturing of the audience to understand that a corporation is just another business that is in the same market place. It is like kids playing a game. If someone is cheating, but playing nicely otherwise, they end up looking better than the kid who is constantly yelling "he's cheating, he's cheating". At some point the complainer looks worse than the cheater. I think this is the problem with Linux and Open Source. Everyone is so busy griping about Microsoft and complaining that they don't realize how bad it makes them look. Just look at the comments on this article. Rather than focusing on how to improve the reputation of linux and open source, everyone is griping about "repecting Microsoft". I think the underlying and critical point of the article was totally missed. The linux community is going ot have to start focusing on itself and stop worrying about Microsoft. When the noise changes from 'bashing Microsoft' to 'hyping linux', then a level of growth will have been made. Maybe instead of saying "respect Microsoft", this article should have said "quit disrespecting Microsoft".
Posted by: Brad! 13 Aug 2007
Read the book "In Search of Stupidity"
I used to be a big Microsoft hater but after reading "In Search of Stupidity", I was a changed man. I remember back through the 80's and 90's and remember many of the stupid things that MS competitors did that led to their downfall. Their mistakes are too numerous to detail here -- buy they book, its a hoot to read. Its not that Microsoft was so evil, but rather that its competitors were so stupid. Even that book admits that Gates went nuts in the late 90's and early part of the 2000's and did act like a monopolist, but this was a short term aberration. The governments of several countries quickly put him in his place. However, during most of their life they were just mildly incompetent technology-wise not evil. And you can't beat their marketting efforts.
Posted by: Lowell Boggs 13 Aug 2007
This is his point
Whereas I agree with most of the criticisms of Microsoft, Zemlin fundamentally has a point. I've come to this forum as a fairly casual observer of the Linux community from a Windows world, and it seems like whenever someone, however reasonably, says that the Linux community needs to seem more mature, more marketable, less prone to flame wars, and more consistent, it's seen as some kind of heresy. It's as if the community is being attacked. Rightly or wrongly, Microsoft does A LOT of stuff correctly, and it alienates the general population of business and IT managers who are not free software zealots when you disparage Microsoft. You are essentially saying, "we're smarter than you because you are drinking the Microsoft Kool-Aid, and we're not, but we still want you to buy in to the idea of our software even though we are really insulting your intelligence." Being a fan of Linux is one thing, but don't equate free software idealism to the realities.
Posted by: Chase Stevens 13 Aug 2007
I guess the call for respect didn't work...
Well I just read through all these comment because on most articles you get people on both sides. But in this case everyone was decidedly against Microsoft. I think the sad reality is that even the general public who uses Microsoft software every day would jump at a chance to bash them. The people who honestly love Microsoft are very few indeed... And I have to agree with everyone here. The things that Microsoft does well should not be done by honest people.
Posted by: Peter 13 Aug 2007
Respect is good, follow is needless
U should respect your enemy before you conquer him. But should this respect as it is told in this article the same as follow the steps of Microsoft. I don't think so.
Posted by: xzckiller 13 Aug 2007
Yes! Respect!
I tell you my oppinion! I like Windows! I use Windows every day! I used to be a Linux user, but i´ve changed my mind!
Posted by: Roberto 13 Aug 2007
I confused about all this.....
All I hear is how Microsoft is after linux about patent issues. What im confused about is, we all hear how microsoft steals ideas from others yet how do we know if Microsoft is violating patents from others. Seems nobody is singing that song and maybe someone should!
Posted by: ThinkTank 13 Aug 2007
Microsoft is unscrupulous.
I have respect for good sports, and fair opponents. Microsoft does not qualify. Steve Ballmer is a bald-faced liar. He could not look you in the eye, and say, "I honestly think Linux has copied Microsoft's intellectual property." He knows the lawsuit is bogus, but to his amoral way of thinking it's just a game, and nobody would seriously think that Microsoft's patent indemnity agreements were any indication of what Ballmer really thinks. He's not stealing a loaf of bread to feed his children. No. This is one of the richest people in the world. Frivolous lawsuits are a textbook business tactic a cash-heavy company like Microsoft would use. No reflection on Ballmer's personal integrity! As a liar and hypocrite myself, I happen to disagree with this premise. I see this as a serious lack of integrity at Microsoft. Microsoft's stock price has stagnated over the last 5 years or so. Microsoft might have made some cash for themselves, but has done nothing for the investor. Compared with AAPL, GOOG, and many other stocks, MSFT is a terrible place to put your money into. You know how they say, first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. Formerly mighty Microsoft is now actually engaging formerly tiny Linux. Isn't that something? It would be an underhanded compliment to the Free Software Foundation, if Microsoft weren't so vicious. Steve Ballmer, shame on you! Between us liars, try to cut back a bit please? What values do you teach your kids? Do you tell them to be proud because Daddy hunted and dragged back a bigger portion of food so they don't have to starve? Lessons in capitalism and amoral pragmatism? I urge you to stop extorting Linux vendors, and damaging the Free and Open Source Software Community. Freedom to innovate is not the same as freedom to stifle innovation. Let's not pretend now. I also urge the several very intelligent people within Microsoft to speak up to their leader. What good is your damn company and your prized intelligence, if you're a liar? I come from a place where there is no Microsoft. http://www.livenudejournal.com
Posted by: Ashwin Dixit 12 Aug 2007
Struck by similarities
I am struck by the similarities between Linux qua small upstart vs. Microsoft qua continent-devouring PR drones and the movie 300, a fight between the tiny Spartan-led Greek army and the continent-devouring military might of the Persian empire circa 480 B. C. E. Jim Zemlin, executive director for the Linux Foundation, wants Linux users to listen to the Ephors: honor the Windows! Give homage to the gods! Render unto Microsoft what is Microsoft's, etc., when the only truly Microsoft thing that Microsoft does, much like the Persians of the movie, is use theft, deceit, and fear of the lash or the spear to sublimate the will of the computer user (especially the Linux user!) to that of the God-King Gates (or Allen, or Ballmer, or whomever is 'running' Microsoft). http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=32335615&blogID=298434018&Mytoken=191710E0-6DB7-434C-ACCD55325029FAF191293860
Posted by: D 12 Aug 2007
The exact point of his speech
What Zemlin secretly tried to imply seems to me exactly the problem the Linux community is facing, referring to the commentary here. If Linux wants to be taken seriously it should adapt the ways of a professional entity instead of becoming a crusade. Even though many in the community deserve to be upset when it concerns microsoft, becoming over-zealous and unprofessional is the most dangerous setback the Linux world could have now. Smite with love.
Posted by: Alex 12 Aug 2007
Why should we respect a "monopoly'' company
Do we really have a choice when buying a computer. Until now I am still using a 5 year old PC because everywhere I go for a PC people just say `M$' and they are proud not to support Linux. All because M$ is monopoly in controlling the market. Every PC need to have a so called legal software --- but why couldn't it be Linux? And why M$?
Posted by: liaohaohui 12 Aug 2007
Respect?!
OK, well now we know that LINUX is dead. Doesn't anyone have any long term memory?
Posted by: Mathue 12 Aug 2007
what is respect
I agree that open source community should respect MS. In the way the ancient hunters respected their prey.
Posted by: yanychar 12 Aug 2007
I'll think about it...
Maybe when Microsoft apologizes for all their FUD work, I'll give some thought to show them a bit more than grudging respect.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie 11 Aug 2007
Respect criminals? Don't make me laugh
Microsoft has been found guilty of anti-competitive practices on 2 continents. Why should I respect a bunch of crooks?
Posted by: Ron Young 11 Aug 2007
Linux Community
Does not respect other then better code. Which M$ haven't any...
Posted by: Delifisek 11 Aug 2007
Let's all obey the foundation
What is the Linux Foundation that it should act in this manner? Does it believe it is some form of deity? I am happy to admit that Microsoft has done some clever things, but I shall not respect Microsoft. I'm constantly reading news articles which clearly show Microsoft to be a dirty company in its actions. I have no respect for any company acting in the way Microsoft does. Honestly.
Posted by: Christopher Pike 11 Aug 2007
When you pry my keyboard from my cold dead hands!
Some companies are beyond redemption. Microsoft is one of them. Why would anyone want to tie themselves to closer cooperation with a company that just introduced the equivalent of Windows Millenium 2? This is not the sort of "marketing genius" you want to be associated with. Microsoft will continue to do their thing, we will do our thing, and let nature take its' course. Anything else is just drinking the purple flavor-aid.
Posted by: hudson 11 Aug 2007
Can I apply for this idiot's job?
1) You do NOT "respect" liars and rip-off artists. And that is what Bill Gates and his sycophants at Microsoft ARE. 2) Just because Microsoft is good at marketing and being a monopoly doesn't mean we should "respect" them - even as an enemy. This guy must be one of these "Democrats" who end up supporting George Bush in the name of "bipartisanship." Which means roll over and play dead. I hereby volunteer to take this guy's job at considerably less money.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack 11 Aug 2007
reeks of hatred
I am not a linux geek but just use it for my work sometimes. I am amused but not surprised by the childish hatred these geeks have for MS, as shown in the comments. I think Jim is making a pretty mature and badly needed point. MS is good at business - there is something called barrier to entry - which is part of any business plan. MS is a wiz at executing business models and maintaining their share. The linux geeks though may claim to be technically savvy, the fact remains that tech savvy is not what really matters to be accepted widely. Look at linux - 100s of distributions, great confusion of brand...despite being a great tech achievement, it's mostly an experiment still, in the context of the whole market. Instead of trying to learn a thing or few from the business giant, linux geeks just choose to be what they are best at- remain geeks. Which is perfectly fine, if their goal is to have fun experimenting with great technology. But if they want to get out and have some decent acceptance, this attitude of refusing to acknowledge and maybe even learn (both the good and the bad about MS) is going to hurt. Mark is perhaps the biggest hope for Linux in terms of business potential.
Posted by: Ashish 11 Aug 2007
Comments on this Article Missing the Point
How many members of a community does it take to refute the idea of "respecting" Microsoft? Almost every person who's commented so far shares the same argument--that Microsoft is a shady behemoth. There's a long enough list of practices and qualities that any OSS advocate could agree should never be a part of its own practices (from a business AND technical aspect). ..but I think making these points about what microsoft DOESN'T do right (which leads to why it doesn't deserve "respect") is like beating on a nail that's already been bludgeoned into the wall thousands (if not millions, if you count forum posts) of times. For all the great things that OSS has done for individuals and entire industries, who's asking about what it could improve on? Bottom line, like the article points out OSS (Linux, particularly) has a competitor. You don't have to like the competitor, but if you want to outshine them, it's wise to humble the "us versus them" mentality to figure out where and why "they" (Microsoft, or at least the sum of all the once earnest companies & technologies they overtook) might have an edge over the OSS world. Sure. It may be more efficient, more reliable, more honest, more "respectable", whatever. But the competition is a BUSINESS ENTITY. It caters to business models and business practices (albeit many shady ones). But look at the presentation. Look at how much time they spend on other things besides the technical aspect of their product. Look beyond their product flaws and shadiness--what's making them so successful which someone in the OSS community IS willing to implement?
Posted by: ricojonah 11 Aug 2007
I only respect those who are worthy of respect
Microsoft's business practices are appalling; their product reeks of lock-in; we know Microsoft wants desperately to kill linux in any way possible. Tell me again why the Linux community needs to respect Microsoft?
Posted by: Benjamin Franklin 10 Aug 2007
Zemlin is sadly mistaken about a lot of things
1) He says we should respect a company that was found to use illegal practices to maintain market share - yeah, right. 2) There are some things that Windows does very well - to which I have to ask him what? I've never seen Windows do anything well. It's adaquete for some functions, yes, but it doesn't do well. 3) Preconceptions? What preconceptions. I've used every version of Windows since 3.0, and what I have is knowledge of how bad Windows truly is. The last decent version was 3.1, it's been all downhill from there. Let's face it - as an operating system Windows is sub-standard. There are a lot of better operating systems out there, including OS2.
Posted by: Wayne 10 Aug 2007
respecting Microsoft
It is generally true that you get the respect you desrve. A convicted monopolist that has the power to buy any behavior it deems expedient state govenments,totally abusive eulas ,etc.etc. That does not garner respect. The respect the original author is talking about is in a business sense and, as we all learned in manage,ment 101, if you dont ruffle the feathers you wont be a target.(I csnt see what Im typing becasue, apparently IBM ads plated across the typing area are more important than mt views. Oh well. PS Lets see how many people respectMicrosoft when the M$ eulas start showing in in Linux distributions. It may e legal and make sense from a business perspective but repect? No way!
Posted by: moe 09 Aug 2007
'Respect' for Microsoft
It's difficult to respect Microsoft's ability for fending off the competition when MS's success is based on ethically questionable tactics instead of a fundamentally superior product. It's also difficult to 'respect' Microsoft's marketing of its products when part of its campaign depends on FUD, e.g. infringement of 235 patents.
Posted by: Marytee 09 Aug 2007
Respect must be earned
Microsoft has shown nothing but contempt for open source, but the open source community is supposed show them respect simply because MS pays billions to market their products, stack standards organizations with their cronies, and fund misleading studies showing their products are always better? That's just stupid. Respect needs to be earned. How can lying to get ahead and using your monopoly position to stifle competition be respected by honest people?
Posted by: Brian Rapp 09 Aug 2007
Microsoft Says No Windows Virtualization on Top of Linux
How about some respect FROM Microsoft? What a joke this speaker is. And what has happened to Linuxworld? Hovesepian, Hilf, and this guy, dressing down Linux? Has this show been coopted too?
Posted by: jwwjr 09 Aug 2007
Respect?
Sure I have respect for Microsoft in the same way that I have respect for a great white shark
Posted by: Steve 09 Aug 2007
Lets not shill here
While it would be good to avoid MS-type marketing (the backdoor, break-your-arm if you don't cooperate type marketing) Linux very much so needs to put out their own strong marketing campaigns. DO NOT silence the voice of OSS to placate to MS. DO NOT hide around the periphery, hoping not to be noticed by the monopolist who "will crush you if you stand up to them." THEY'RE ALREADY DOING THAT REGARDLESS IF YOU ARE NOTICED OR NOT. OSS should shout out to reach executives, the masses, and all who are hearing the same (and worse) from the MS camp. Linux is right in the middle of it, and must PUSH FORWARD WITH ALL ITS MIGHT in order to survive. It won't do any good giving respect to a company and playing nice with it while it (best case) rips the rug out from under OSS, or (worst case) makes OSS unwieldy/illegal/immoral through manipulation of governments and standards bodies. Respect is earned, not given. When an entity acts in a way to lose that respect, it should be damn hard for them to get it back. MS has not done ANYTHING to earn back any respect it may have had. From anyone. I give it props for making easy (for the lay tech) to use products that crash a lot, but not respect.
Posted by: Harper A 09 Aug 2007
you're kidding, right?
"This also requires that the Linux community respects Microsoft rather than ridicule it. "There are some things that Windows does pretty well," Zemlin said. Microsoft for instance has excelled in marketing the operating system, and has a good track record in fending off competition." We should respect Microsoft for behaving like a convicted illegal monopolist that has bullied its way to the top? Are you nuts? Interoperability has always been there for Microsoft to employ- but all interoperability efforts have come from the FOSS world, and Microsoft has actively hindered it. Open standards, open licenses- it's always been there for the taking. But as the publicly-sworn enemy of FOSS, and especially the GPL, I do not understand why you think anyone should make nice to Microsoft, Mr. Zemlin.
Posted by: Carla Schroder 09 Aug 2007
Decline your request
As an OSS dealer and contributor I must decline this request with force. Here's Microslop doing it's best to run us out of business and rape us one way or the other and you have the stomach to ask us to respect them?!? The fact that they are going to be around does not mean I should suck it up and politely accept their insults and criminal behavior just because you have the poor judgement of jumping in bed with them. Meanwhile all you are accomplishing is loosing more of our respect. I strongly suggest you get your own house in order before worrying about others.
Posted by: Steve Szmidt 09 Aug 2007
It Does Pretty Well. . .
"'There are some things that Windows does pretty well,' Zemlin said. Microsoft for instance has excelled in marketing the operating system, and has a good track record in fending off competition." Tom Sanders isn't admitting that Windows does ANYTHING well. He's simply stating that Microsoft markets Windows successfully. I might be mistaken, but I really don't think that this is what Zemlin had in mind by his remark! --- From the editor: Tom Sanders is merely reporting on what Jim Zemlin said. The author doesn't admit or deny anything.
Posted by: Joe Swick 09 Aug 2007
Microsoft good track record ?
You mean "good track record" of a convicted monopolist ? (and the ongoing case for the same motives in Europe, Korea and other places) Fending off competition ? I believe it's rather been embrace, extend and extinguish. Not just the competition, but their partners too... IBM, Sybase, Spyglass, Sun Microsystems... all screwed by Microsoft. Is this the kind of learning we have to do from Microsoft ? It's okay if Linuxworld gets paid by Microsoft and Microsoft wants to compete on technical merits, but pretending Linux has something to learn on the business practice side, it's not only stupid pretense, but also dangerous and naive, if not outright servile. Thanks, but no thank you.
Posted by: vruz 09 Aug 2007
WHAT???
Respect Microsoft? ..............! Sorry, no cigar. If anybody is supposed to 'respect' Microsoft, they have to change quite a lot: - Quit anticompetitive behaviour - Quit rigging elections on standards - Follow standards - Stop spreading FUD - Stop 'Embrace and Extinguish' - Stop hostile takeover of their partnes intellectual property - Accept the rulings against them in U.S., Europe and Korea, and comply ...and so on and on and on... IMHO, pigs will fly before any of the community will 'respect' Microsoft. And in the meantime, i think some people needs to re-think who they suck up to. Yours truly - Kim B.C.
Posted by: Kim B. Christensen 09 Aug 2007